Old dog issues

[mamagotcha]

Our good dog Wiley has been with us for the better part of 14 years.

He's got some regular old-dog things going on, behavior changes, achy joints, that sort of thing. He's mostly deaf and partly blind, too, although he mostly does well aside from occasionally startling (and so far he hasn't bitten anyone from being startled).

He's got some huge lipomas on his body... I've had several vets look at them, and they all more or less said the same thing: he's very old (he's at the higher end of the expected life span for both huskies and Australian shepherds), and at this point, surgery would probably be much more taxing on him than just living with them. They don't cause him pain... it's more disfiguring, and possibly impeding his mobility a bit, but it's hard to tell if that's joint pain or the lipomas displacing bones. Two are growing on either side of his chest, under his forelegs, and have grown under and forward, involving the chest wall... the surgery would be pretty invasive (not to mention expensive) and both vets expressed concern that he might not even survive the anesthesia.

He's on the raw-food diet too (if we gave him kibble, Bill's cat Cil would eat it instead of his meat, and start with the denuding behavior again), but he tends to either eat huge amounts, or just leave it alone for whole days at a time.

He wants to go outside in the snow, but once he gets settled, he starts yelping... not a pain yelp, just "hey, someone come hang out with me." He doesn't want to come back in, though, and it's getting harder and harder to coax him inside... he's rather stay out and bark, which I'm sure the neighbors love.

He also comes downstairs to the basement if anyone goes down there... but if one person comes back up the stairs, he stands at the bottom and barks constantly until someone comes to coax him up. I think we're going to start blocking the stairs so he doesn't go down there, but I suspect he'll bark until we let him down.

He's been waking up a couple times at night. He wants to go outside and wander, and he can take up to 20 minutes to do his business... if you call him in before he's done, he'll just wake you up again an hour later. It doesn't seem related to whether or not he's eaten or drank water, either... he just wakes up and can't go back to sleep, I think. It's not pain, either... we try giving him his pain pills before bedtime, and that doesn't seem to make a difference.

He still loves to go on walks, and most days we wind up at the dog park about half a mile away. He loves trotting around the other dogs, and mostly they know he's an old man and treat him accordingly... but he still gets bowled over by the occasional frisky group (and once got attacked by a bulldog). The problem is that he CONSTANTLY barks while we're there. He's excited, I get that, but it's getting really old and I worry about being a good dog park user... we're still pretty new, and trying to build good relationships with the neighbors around the area, and having one dog bark nonstop for 30-40 minutes can be annoying. He'll stop if I come up to him and hold his muzzle gently for a second, but after less than a minute, he starts again (and when I do it, he cringes and acts like I'm going to hit him, which I NEVER do, but I hate what it looks like to the other dog owners!).

I'm getting ready to go on this long road trip, and my father has told me that I shouldn't bring Wiley... that his own two new dogs are very territorial. It's also harder to find places to stay when he's with us (some KOAs and all Motel 6s take dogs, we've learned, but not all places have KOAs and some Motel 6s attract some rather unsavory clientele). And he's having a VERY hard time getting in and out of the van... we've tried different kinds of steps and stools, but he won't use them. He will only get in if the van is pulled up right against a curb (and even then it can take him several agonizingly long minutes to get in), and curbs are not always available everywhere we're staying. He definitely yelps a painful yelp if I try to help him into the van, and he's about 70 pounds... too low to the ground and too heavy for me to be lifting without wrecking my back.

I've looked into a couple of kinds of harnesses you can use to help dogs get up stairs and such, but none of them are supposed to be left on long-term, and I could see the putting-on-taking-off process having to happen a dozen times a day being a real pain for both us and Wiley.

He's on Dasuquin for his joints, and we give him Rimadyl for pain when he's having a hard time getting up or limping after a long walk (also a few times when he's fallen down the stairs... twice badly). Both of these are pricey, and Rimadyl has some potentially negative health issues with long-term use.

He also gets this thing once in a while, where he has a very hard time walking (but is not in pain) and seems drunk, won't eat, just lies down and acts like he wants to not move for a while. After talking with several vets, I still didn't know what was wrong. Finally I found some information on an inner ear problem that tends to hit older dogs, and now I'm certain that this is what's going on. It's happened three or four times (though not for a few months now), and it's likely that it will happen again and more frequently.

Clay's talking about moving out this summer, which would make me lose my child support from his dad, which means we wouldn't be able to stay in this house any longer. Finding a house with only a few stairs was hard enough... finding one with none feels insurmountable. And (lord forgive me, but I'm trying to be honest with you) if we were able to drop our requirement for a yard and no stairs, our housing options would open up tremendously; we could move closer to Bill's work, and afford a pretty nice place.

My sister, my dad, and several good friends have had elderly dogs who have reached a point where they all decided it was Time. I'm struggling with making this decision for Wiley. What's horrible is that I have to factor in things like my road trip (hiring dog walkers to let him out and exercise him while I'm gone, or figure out some way to take him with me), money (the dog walkers would be expensive, surgery would be REALLY expensive, raw food and his pills are expensive), and (please forgive me, but again with the honestly) my own irritation at having to be helping him up stairs and letting him out in the middle of the night.

I can tell Bill is pretty unhappy with how things are. I don't think he'll be very happy about having to feed and walk and coax him for while I'm gone, and Clay's gotten really distant and unhelpful lately... he never feeds or waters the animals, and when he's asked to walk the dog, he gets really angry. I'm definitely worried about leaving an infirm animal with two people who actively resent him, and I'm equally hesitant to ask them to take on a task they're both clearly reluctant to accept.

Boarding him while we're gone is out of the question (far too expensive, Wiley hates it, and last time he was kenneled, he had to have a bordatello shot that gave him a respiratory infection that lasted over three weeks). I don't know anyone here well enough to ask them to do it, like a friend did when we were getting ready to move from Davis (and he didn't have all these issues then). Taking him with me would be really hard on both of us.

When people I know are struggling with a sick animal, wondering whether it's time to euthanize, the pretty clear indicator has been when the animal stops eating. But while Wiley sometimes eschews his "regular" food (raw chicken parts) for days, he's always up for biscuits, broth, leftovers, eggs, and almost anything else that comes his way.

So it boils down to considering euthanasia for my own convenience, essentially, which makes me feel just horrible.

I have already arranged with a local vet to do a house visit for euthanasia, even in the middle of the night, if we have a crisis... he'd be too heavy for me to lift dead-weight from the floor if he were injured, and the thought of making his last hour even more agonizing by moving him is just too cruel.

It is horrific to consider putting him down while he's still mobile and eating? To do it while he's not in pain and terrified with some injury after falling down the stairs, or during some other crisis? It almost seems kinder... to do it before an emergency forces the decision. But what if... what if he'd have another year or two of happiness (or what passes for happiness for an old dog) if I only kept doing what I'm doing? Do I owe it to him, after the years he put in to protecting and playing with my kids?

ETA: Sir Terry Pratchett on the idea of jumping before being pushed: "I intend, before the endgame looms, to die sitting in a chair in my own garden with a glass of brandy in my hand and Thomas Tallis on the iPod. Oh, and since this is England, I had better add, "If wet, in the library". Who could say that this is bad?" In Wiley's case, it could be after downing a couple of cheeseburgers and a good romp at the dog park. But it would still be me pushing instead of some sort of organ failure or other injury, not him jumping of his own free will. And, being a dog, I suspect his sense of loyalty would keep him with us much longer beyond comfort or happiness if it were his choice alone.

I just wish there was a way to ask Wiley.


How do I solve this? What do I do? Help!

Comments

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

This is a hard decision. My old dog Grover was very old (23) and at the end we made the decision for him. He was still, like your old Wiley, eating and moving about. The thing that sealed the deal was my mom coming home from work to find he had fallen on the kitchen floor with splayed legs and could not get up. Who knows how long he had been there? Good old Grover really needed the kind of constant supervision and care old people need when they get to that lever of decline. Only good old dogs can't hire a nurse to sit with them.

Sometimes we are kinder to our animals than we can be to the people in our lives. I understand your difficulties in reaching your decision and I wish you a gentle peace no matter what you decide. It is clear anything you do will be done out of love and a compassionate heart.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's really old for a dog! And if Wiley had an episode like that, it would be pretty clear what to do. As horrible as it is, I almost wish we could have some sort of Event as a signal. But I don't want it to be falling down the stairs or some horrible injury... and the way things are going, that's what's going to happen.

Thank you for sharing your story, and the memory of your beloved dog, with me.

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

He was a big mix-up mutt. I think he had some poodle in him (they live a long time) but maybe portugese water dog? He was about that size. Good old Grover, I swear. I can look at photos of my dad, my grandparents, my brother, my husband - they've all died and I see photos and never shed a tear. Show me a picture of old Grover and I get all misty and verklempt. He was a good dog.

I hope old Wiley doesn't have to suffer a horrible injury at the end. :( That's so very sad, my friend. I understand why you don't want it to go down that way.

Have you thought of having a vet come out to the house and put him to sleep there at home? That can be a bittersweet kindness to help an old companion on to the next level in their comfortable happy surroundings. Just a thought.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's exactly how we'd do it if we did go down that path. Even if he got hurt, we'd have the vet come, even if it was 3 a.m., because I hate the idea of making his last hour even more stressful by moving him.

I'm sure the vet would much prefer a scheduled visit, in any case. We'd make it as comfortable as possible... maybe with oral sedatives first? I don't know...

There was an episode of "All Creatures Great and Small" that I don't think was in the books... a valuable hunting horse was injured and the injury, while not immediately fatal, was not going to heal and was going to get worse over time. The owner decided to have the animal put down (which, for horses, means shot), but he insisted on doing it his own way. The horse's favorite thing was to go hunting, and he was happiest when he heard the horns and hounds approaching, so the owner got his friends to gear up and ride to his stables as if they were preparing for a hunt, so that the horse could be killed right when he was the happiest. This is exactly what I'd try to do for Wiley, if we went that way.

[1firefly.livejournal.com]

Its time. I will call.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Give Molly a good scritch from me. And thanks for your time, I truly appreciate it.

[jillcook.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're horrible, just honest.

But, having said that (and having a somewhat older dog myself), I don't think that euthanasia for what is essentially the convenience of the human members of your family is the answer.

Wiley is your FAMILY pet. Would you balk at caring for the cats if Bill were leaving town? I'm sorry Clayton is being unhelpful...but again, FAMILY pet. I feel badly for Wiley that he may be left at home with people who are annoyed with him, but that is not really his fault.

I think it is valuable for people to see the entire life span in pets. Everyone loves puppies and kittens, but old age is part of the life span. I don't want anyone to euthanize me before things "get bad". There is value in Wiley's life as it is right now.

Have you considered maybe taking a shorter trip? I know you want to do the braiding tour, but to be completely honest myself (and I hope I don't sound all holier-than-thou!) I DO think you owe Wiley his last good year or two.

The housing and money things, those are sticky/tricky, but again, they are not Wiley's problems. What the big question here is, it seems, is this: Is a pet an equal member of a family? How much do a pet's needs count? I don't know the absolute answer to these questions, and I am so sorry you have to consider them now. (hugs), friend.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

I don't think a pet is an equal member of the family. I've raised farm animals, and I will concede that there is definitely a huge difference between house animals and barn animals. But he was definitely a service animal, and still serves in that capacity to some level (if someone opens the door and startles him, they'd get a very wolfish-looking creature making a big noise, and they'd definitely think twice).

His needs were definitely considered when we moved here (and, frankly, to every house we've bought or rented in the last ten years)... we had to turn down a lot of otherwise good properties because of stairs and yard problems.

My heart breaks when I hear of all the abandoned and euthanized animals from the foreclosure crisis. We have definitely had to struggle with those issues since our own foreclosure, and at that point we decided to give him a few "last good years" instead of pulling the trigger. How much longer do I drag this on?

Thank you for your own honesty. I appreciate your point of view.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

I've been hearing you take Wiley's needs into account for years at this point. Whatever decision you make, I do trust it to be in everyone's best interest, including Wiley's, the other members of your family's, and yours.

[via-lens.livejournal.com]

Katje, I haven't thought about this in decades because it's just too much to think about, but my distant past is relevant to your dilemma. My dog Sadie was a purebred German Shepherd with hip dysplasia in her "old age" of about 8 years. She was in all other respects healthy - no illness, no graying around the muzzle, alert, full faculties of sight and hearing and smell. But she could not walk. She dragged her hind legs around behind her. She could not be left alone on our property because she'd get into situations where she couldn't get out, so during the day she lived inside the high fence we built for our swimming pool, and in the evenings she slept in the garage. She loved us and we loved her, and since so many things were going right for her, it seemed like it was not right to "put her down," as my Dad pushed for.

I hated him for that then. In later years I've come to understand that he was right, and rational, when my mother and I were not. Sadie did have our love and affection, and she showed love and affection to us, but we did not extend her happiness by extending her lifespan in the way that we chose to do it. When we finally had her euthanized, it was so much harder to let go because we had so thoroughly convinced ourselves that what we were doing by keeping her alive was right. But in the light of these 25 years later, I know that our consideration for her was really consideration for ourselves, and unwillingness to make the hard decision. We took the easy road and we should not have.

Wiley has had a long and full life and you have made concessions for him all along the way, because you love him and you are a good pet owner. But what you describe is a dog who is increasingly confused and feeling lost because of the loss of his faculties: a dog who needs a predictable schedule and simple ways to move around in order to feel at ease. The barking is him trying to figure out where he is. He doesn't want to be separated from the pack even though traveling the stairs is difficult and dangerous for him. A road trip would not be a good thing for him right now, and quite likely neither would an unpredictable schedule and major changes in the composition of the household in the short term, when he really needs stability.

I think that the hard decision for you is the right decision. It's not a decision for your convenience. It's an acknowledgement that you cannot give him what he needs, not because you choose not to, but because that is not how your life is. And the reason he needs those things is because he is extremely elderly, unable to care for himself without significant participation from people around him. I don't think you should confuse his moments of relative joy with a general contentment, because general contentment is not what you've described here.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing your story, S. And you are so right about how we have come to value the number of days over the quality of the days... if you've spent any time at all in a nursing home, you know how that is playing out for so many folks.

[(Anonymous)]

Such a hard decision, Gotcha, and I'm sorry you have to make it. I shouldn't really advise you, but I can empathize, and I can assure you that whatever you decide to do will be the valid result of a lot of well-intended, well-considered thinking. I've had to euthanize two dogs in my life, and in both cases the choice was pretty clearcut, yet still I second-guessed myself. I think that's pretty natural, no matter what the circumstances. Now, reading your letter, I'm actually third-guessing myself--wondering if I waited a few weeks too *long* before putting Zephyr and Katie to sleep.

I'm sitting here trying to think like someone wise, someone impeccably ethical... (What would Socrates do? Or maybe Jesus?) But I'm at a loss. Partly I just don't know Wiley well enough--in fact, I don't know him at all. Surely Bill is the person you need to consult with, commiserate with, grieve with, about this decision. Clayton too, maybe, and certainly you should ask your vet about it since he's been at least an observer of this very dilemma many times. From what you write, it seems as if you're taking on the choice-making burden pretty much all by yourself (with a little consolation from your friends). I could be wrong about this, of course. Let me just say, in general, that what to do with Wiley should probably be a family decision--and, now that I think of it, his daily care should also be a family burden. I hope that's not presumptuous--it just seems like you're taking on complete responsibilty for Wiley's daily care and his future, while the others are just "unhappy" or "unhelpful," and that's hardly fair.

Just know that whatever you do, you'll be doing what you think, and maybe even know, to be the best for all of you. And that's the best any of us can ever do. Love you.

[(Anonymous)]

I see this was posted anonymously. But it's really me, Uncanny.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

<3 I knew it was you. Thank you so much for your words. I'm so glad I got to meet your sweet Katie (even if she was less than thrilled to meet Wiley). I think he's actually about where she was when we met her, to be honest.

Lots to think about. I'm betting Jesus wouldn't touch stuff like this with a ten-foot pole.

[jillcook.livejournal.com]

You said this much more eloquently than I could have. I agree with you completely.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Uncanny is an amazing soul. You'd love her, Jill. I don't know anyone who has met her who doesn't, actually.

[elainetyger.livejournal.com]

What she said.

I could not have a dog again unless there was someone who cared as much as I did about it living with me.

Cats are easier to take care of long term. Then again, it was such a blessing when Pinky after 22 years had her final Episode the night before I left for the Seattle con. I would not go above and beyond again medically with a pet -- it's so hard to get off that road once you start down it -- even though I especially love my cat Harry.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that reading about your adventures with your pets has made me feel like a total piker... I'm whinging about being woken up, you were dealing with incontinence and meds and all sorts of challenges.

Thank goodness the two cats (12 years old) seem to be in great shape, especially after moving them to raw food last year. Cats are also SO much easier to deal with regarding housing.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have any useful advice for you, but I'll leave something my (extremely kind, caring) veterinarian said to me when I was having trouble making a similar decision about an aging cat:

"It's important to remember that these are animals, not people. They only live long enough for senescence to be an issue because we are taking care of them; in the wild, they wouldn't survive. And when we agree to be responsible for them, we also take responsibility for deciding when to let them go."

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Pat. Wise words and much appreciated. Hope your two beautiful girls are doing well!

[mh75.livejournal.com]

I haven't had to deal with this personally, yet. And i surely don't have any easy answers.

I can say that the people i know who euthanized their pets recently pretty uniformly came to that point after emotionally separated folks would have said it was time. And they realized that, as hard as it was, it was probably right. I'm guessing you might be in that situation, although your vet may be able to give you more feed back about expected life span, etc.

I haven't paid close attention to dates, but how much time do you have before your trip? Perhaps putting this off for as long as possible will help you know whether or not you've given all the joyful life you can give.

Anyway, my sympathy, and good wishes.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't have to for a long, long time. It sucks. :(

Thank you for your kind words.

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

Jesus. Don't tell me, okay? I want to know when he's gone, just don't tell me how it happens. When it's time for him to go, whether that's because of some huge injury or because you decide you can't do this anymore, just... if you post on LJ about the details, can you please filter me out? Not just a cut-tag with a warning, I won't be able to stop myself.

[jedusor.livejournal.com]

ugh, I'm crying for the first time since I saw Toy Story 3 last summer. Apparently childhood nostalgia is my big sadness trigger these days.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Now I'm REALLY sorry. T.T

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Sure, Mishie. I'm sorry if this upset you.

[tarrestrial.livejournal.com]

I've had to euthanize two animals in my life as a pet owner and, honestly, other factors like convenience were considered in both cases. The first was my dog, Chelsea. She was 13 and was having trouble walking. She began to have these "episodes" where she would fall down and urinate on herself. At the time, my mother was in a the Mayo Clinic in MN being diagnosed with lung cancer and various family members were staying there with her or making the trip every weekend. We put Chelsea down because we couldn't deal with two sick family members at one time. Perhaps that makes me a bad pet owner, but she needed a lot of care and supervision that I simply was unable to give her at that time. So, what, really, can you do for Wiley? I think you need to look at the options that are available to you and take the one that is kindest to Wiley. I don't envy your decision. *hugs and positive thoughts*

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Oh god. I can't even imagine how horrible that was. I don't think you were a bad pet owner at all, and I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that.

Thank you so much for sharing your story and kind words.

[tarrestrial.livejournal.com]

I guess the point of the story was that Life happens. You have to consider the circumstances at the time as well as the needs of all involved when making an ungodly-tough decision like that. I wish you luck!

[via-lens.livejournal.com]

My cat Hemingway was hit by a car two days before my paternal grandmother suffered an ultimately fatal (though it took 3 weeks and a willful unplugging of the respirator) stroke. I, too, have had to choose which grief to deal with most specifically, and I relate and sympathize with you, though I don't know you at all.

Hemingway was ultimately euthanized after we determined that he would never again eat without being fed through a feeding tube, and after he spent several weeks in a veterinarian's boarding facility because we couldn't juggle all the hospice visits between grandma and cat. I loved him most of all my pets in my entire life, but I wish I'd known earlier that there wasn't any hope of his recovering, so he could have been spared the suffering.

[tarrestrial.livejournal.com]

As much as I love and cherish my pets, I can't honestly say that I value their lives as much as human life. I think most of us, given these choices between human family or non-human family, would make the same decision.

I will always miss Chelsea and Willow (the other pet I had to put down), but I don't regret my actions because, in the end, I think it really was the best I could do with the resources I had at that time.

Thank you for the empathy. It sounds like you too did the best for Hemingway that you could. Don't blame yourself for something that you couldn't have known. Grieving is hard enough without adding guilt to the experience.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Oh lordy, S., I didn't hear that story. I'm so sorry you all had to go through that. He was the beautiful Russian Blue, right?

Thanks again for sharing this.

[via-lens.livejournal.com]

Yes, Hemingway was the inimitable Russian Blue - fetcher of paper balls, engaging conversationalist, and frequent traveler to my other grandmother's Alzheimer's ward to give her and her friends some kitty time. Thank you for remembering him.

[tara-doula.livejournal.com]

That is always a hard decision Katje and I am so sorry that you are in the middle of it right now. I have been there and it has rarely been as clear-cut as I would wish. And if it is that clear cut, than it probably means their last day was pretty horrible and you wish you would have decided sooner. :/ Unfortunately, unless you can find a good clairvoyant, there's no way to know that so we just have to do our best. My thoughts are, how is the animal's quality of life right now? Are they able to enjoy the things that are important to them? If I could translate their age, situation, and ailments into human terms, what would I want? There is no one answer that is right for everyone, whether it is our pets or ourselves.

Hugs, friend.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

If I could translate their age, situation, and ailments into human terms, what would I want?

What an elegant way to state the dilemma! Thank you, Tara, for your kind and wise words.

[lunacow]

I'm so sorry you're facing this decision. It's not an easy one to make under any circumstances, but especially when the right choice is so unclear. It sounds as though if you perceived Wiley's quality of life to be a little worse, you'd have some confidence that putting him down would be the kindest course of action. I think via_lens has a good insight that Wiley's inner state may be a lot less content than it looks from a human point of view. That's something worth thinking about that might make the right decision clearer.

Wiley is a sweet and wonderful dog, and I am glad to have known him. He lived a good, long life, with much mutual happiness between him and all of you. You have nothing to feel horrible about if you decide that it's time to let him go.

[mamagotcha.livejournal.com]

Q made a similar point over on FB, about how "freakin' stoic" dogs can be. And Wiley is definitely not a complainer... in fact, that's part of what makes the constant barking so disturbing. That really isn't like him.

I know he always had a blast hanging out at HALFLAB. Thank you so much for always making my entire family so welcome. I very much hope to mooch... er, I mean, see you on this trip, too!

[lunacow]

*Hugs* I hope we'll see you during your trip! Around mid-May?